[Zope-Moz] Re: Re. mozillation project?

[Jerry Spicklemire]

Shalabh Chaturvedi wrote:
>Jerry Spicklemire wrote:
>>
>> An ease of use feature, something like:
>>
>> at top center create title with text = name
>>
>> at next line left create dropdown with options type = "file"
>>
>> at next line center create input validate with list_users
>
>ooooh! This is like the user interaction description language I've been
wishing
>for. I thought of it in a different context actually. If any the interface of
>an application is described in an 'user-interaction' language rather than
bound
>to a specific 'user-interface' language - its interface can be implemented in
>using different user-interface bindings. The 'interaction' language would
>describe the semantics of the interaction rather than the exact ui-widgets
in a
>particular interface language.
>
>For example if Zope products described their interface using such a language
>rather than html, they would be directly portable to using the mozilla
>framework too. It wouldn't require any changes to the product, only bindings
>from the language to xul and js would be required. However I don't think
it is
>a small task to create such a language. In fact I think it is huge. There
will
>be a lot of things will pop up when someone gets down to it. So I don't even
>know if it is practical.

Perhaps this is too ambitious for the present stage, but the deeper I get
into 
Zope, the more certain I am that a very high level Application Development 
Environment is needed to get this stuff into the hands of the content
providers 
of the Web Wide World!

>Also the creator looses control over exact presentation when he describes the
>'user-interaction' of his app and not the exact 'user-interface'. This
might be
>very important to the creator.

The role of designer would be likely be filled by someone with Graphic 
Communications skills/training, and specific knowledge of GUI Design. 
That individual would indeed need finer control, and their work would be 
available in the form of reliably useable and presentable components.

The model that keeps resurfacing amidst my jumbled thoughts is "customers 
who have customers who have customers". In this case, the implication is 
that the users who interact at the highest level, through a GUI builder, 
will not be the Widget Builders, but rather the widget users.

In other words, the fact that a user doesn't have absolute control 
shouldn't be critical. After all, that user level assumes a set of pre-built 
widgets, and that's all you have to work with.

>As for ZopeStudio providing facilities for creating apps like this - I'm not
>sure it would something to aim for for the first version. It also means
>changing the paradigm of working with Zope, maybe changes to Zope itself.
It is
>certainly a thing I would keep at the back of my mind, though - since it will
>spring new and interesting ideas.

The ultimate irony is that each new level of abstraction makes the system 
less comprehensible, such that the only workable solution is the final "top 
level" abstraction. That's the point where the casual user can manipulate 
the system with ease, in spite of a complete lack of understanding of how 
the thing actually works!

>
>Shalabh

Later,
Jerry S.