[Zope3-dev] Development methodology (Re: [Zope-CMF] Future CMF) (rant)

[Jim Fulton]

Guido van Rossum wrote:

...

> 
> Maybe this is a key observation: that the PEP process works better
> than the Fishbowl process

Does it? It's not clear to me that it does.  What evidence do you have
for this.


 > because it is a little more formal.  A PEP
> requires you to keep everything in one place

So does a fishbowl proposal. In fact, a fishbowl proposal
gathers comments as well as the original proposal. To find
PEP comments, I have to hunt through mailing list archives.
It's even less clear how to comment on PEPs.

 > and spend some time
> editing it so that it's understandable for outsiders. 

That's true of fishbowl proposals.

 > The PEP editor
> enforces form standards, and keeps a centralized index, so you can
> always find all PEPs. 

Fishbowl proposals have that too, although it's less rigid for
fishbowl proposals.  Anybody can make a proposal, but you have to get
someone's help to make a PEP. I think this is both good and bad.
Because I don't like restrictions, I prefer the fishbowl approach.

It would help a lot of more time was spent editorially on the fishbowl.
This is a place where some volunteers could help a lot.

 > PEPs also have categories, like proposal,
> draft, standard, final, rejected, etc., which help. 

So do fishbowl proposals.

 > Finally, PEPs
> have a short name (the 1-4 digit PEP number) which makes references
> easier and seems to be easier to remember than the typical Wiki name.

I'd ask if you were kidding, but I actualy know you aren't.  I'd much rather
remember a wiki name than a number.

> Wikis often wither on the vine: we recently had a semi-disaster in the
> Python community with Wikis, where a Wiki was proposed and created for
> communications regarding backporting of fixes to Python 2.2.2, and
> then left mostly unused.  The few people who did use the Wiki found
> their bugs being ignored; most people who backported bugs didn't
> bother updating the Wiki.

I don't think that wikis are the issue here. All fishbowl proposals have to
go in a particular place.  The fact that they are wiki pages is secondary.

The biggest problem we have with the fishbowl is that there isn't
enough time being spent on editorial work. This has nothing to do with
technology but with available time. Zope Corporation can't do this alone
and do everything else that's expected of us and pay the bills.  We could
really use some more volunteers to help.

Jim


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