[Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope3-checkins] CVS: Zope3/lib/python/Zope/App/OFS/Services/SmtpService/Views - __init__.py:1.1 configure.zcml:1.1

[Chris Withers]

Stephan Richter wrote:
>>Zope is already having an indentity crisis, though (besides the Content
>>Management vs. Application Server). In a sense, we already *have* a generic
>>protocol framework in place, that handles HTTP, FTP, WebDAV, and friends.
> 
> Well, Mark Pratt used to say "Zope is an Operating System for the Web" and 
> that is how I see it too. That leaves all identity crisis arguments behind I 
> think.

Unless people don't agree with that statement. I don't ;-)
I think Zope is a web application server, and focusing on that may mean 
something actually gets delivered.

> Yes, Shane and I worked in March on a replacement for Medusa and it is in use 
> since then. The architecture is really nice and pluggable. In fact, the FTP 
> and HTTP server that come with Zope, work out of the box simply with the 
> Filesystem. We have not replaced the old asyncore module, since it was too 
> much work, but that is just a task pending.

Can you elaborate on this please? Is asyncore is use or not? If it is, then what 
was all the work you guys did?

> Shane and I looked at Twisted and decided that it was not suitable for the 
> Zope 3 default servers (I do not want or plan to explain the reasonings 
> here). 

Why not? ;-)

> We also decided that we want to build only a few servers, but make 
> them behave and work really good - "deeper is better than wider" was the 
> motto.

Yup, I think that's important to stress and somethign I strongly agree with. We 
can look at plugging in other servers/services once we have something useful up 
and running.

>>Do we even need an integrated Web server to begin with?
>>We're told it makes it easy to set up "out of the box".

This is somethign I'm curious about too, Apache is a pretty good web server, why 
can't we just use that?

> Yes, and you give the reason why. I for example do not even have Apache or any 
> other Web Server installed on my Laptop and it would really enoy me if I 
> would have to just to run Zope. 

But it adds a pretty hefty development burden to have a web server. Look at the 
huge number of DOS and other attacks still open if you _don't_ run Zope behind 
Apache. The concept of running one web server behind another also confuses a lot 
of people.

>>I guess what I'm saying is that if we _do_ in fact want to see Zope grow
>>10X, then perhaps we do need to expose Zope as extremely extensible
>>platform. 
> 
> Sure. 

Extensible is good, but we actually need a platform for any growth ;-)
I'm very much in favour of getting a very small, tight core up and running so we 
can actually start using it for things rather than developing a massive white 
elephant.

cheers,

Chris