[Grok-dev] Re: layers and skins

Maurits van Rees m.van.rees at zestsoftware.nl
Fri Apr 20 12:13:03 EDT 2007

Martijn Faassen, on 2007-04-20:
> Maurits van Rees wrote:
>> Martijn Faassen, on 2007-04-19:
>>> I don't think CMF developers are very important in this discussion. CMF 
>>> developers may or may not pick up Grok, and if they do, they need to 
>>> learn new concepts all over the map, from views to skins.
>> As a Plone add-on developer I may not be very important, but I will
>> share a story anyway. ;-)
> I didn't mean to imply you're not important. I just meant to say that we 
> shouldn't be too worried about breaking the assumptions of a CMF 
> developer (or a PHP developer or a TurboGears developer) because Grok 
> doesn't aim to follow the design patterns of these systems very much. 

Agreed and understood.  No offense meant and none taken.

> Then again, we *should* be worried about going against the assumptions 
> of *all* developers that approach us.
> And you as a grok user giving us valuable feedback are naturally 
> important to us!


Then again, Zope 3 tries to avoid mistakes made in Zope 2.  In the
distinction between layers, skins and perhaps themes, Grok tries to
avoid mistakes made in CMF.  Zope 3 is making zope development
cleaner.  And in this layers/skins discussion Grok is making
layers/skins development cleaner.  So keep up the good work!

When given clarity and consistency in code and documentation, I do not
think any developer would mind having to learn a new way to think
about layers and skins.

> A skin is a user-visible concept. A layer is a programmatic concept.
> A layer is simply a way to group views together. Layers in Zope 3 offer 
> advanced ways of grouping including groups inheriting from each other, 
> etc, as layers are interfaces. Layers by themselves don't do anything - 
> they need a skin to make them work.
> A skin is a perspective on the underlying information. An application 
> can have one perspective, or more than one.

[snip clear explanation]

>> Anyway, if Grok uses the term 'skin', please be very consistent in all
>> places.
> Good point. I understand Philipp's point about confusing people with the 
> word 'skin' a bit better now that I've read your post. Unfortunately so 
> far the alternative word 'theme' doesn't work for me.

I like the word Perspective that you used above.  But maybe we do not
need another name.

I think I will add another idea later in this discussion, but right
now I am going for a swim. :)

Maurits van Rees | http://maurits.vanrees.org/ [NL]
            Work | http://zestsoftware.nl/
"Do not worry about your difficulties in computers,
 I can assure you mine are still greater."

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