[Grok-dev] Re: What is Grok anyways... time for a name change? :)
faassen at startifact.com
Wed May 9 18:51:47 EDT 2007
Thanks for this good set of answers to Sebastian, better than mine. :)
A few comments to your points:
Martin Aspeli wrote:
> That's probably a marketing thing. Also, bear in mind that Grok is
> really very new. :)
Right, I want to do more about our web presence, tutorial, reference,
and code before we try really spreading the message wide outside our
community. I hope we get to doing this after the summer, though.
>> I am still not entirely sure -- what is Grok?
> Maybe that's because it's evolving? Maybe it's something the Grok
> developers need to make more clear on the website. For now, think of
> Grok as a project which is rapidly producing a (small) framework and set
> of patterns for increasing your productivity and letting you take
> advantage of the incredible power of Zope 3. At least, that's how I
> think of it.
Yes, good point and good description. I'll add it to my todo list to
integrate this into the website.
>> As Zope 3 evolves, does Grok evolve too?
> Of course. You can use any Zope 3 component from within a Grok-based
> application. At least, that should be the aim.
It's something that you can already do. The other way around (using a
grok-based component in a non-grok zope 3 app) we're working on.
Of course we keep looking out for patterns to allow people to more
*effectively* use a wide variety of Zope 3 components. We got a lot more
thinking ahead of us. I want Grok to make it trivial to define new
widgets, I want Grok to allow us to get rid of the unittest and
functional test setup boilerplate, and there dozens of Zope 3 extensions
we need to check to see whether they could benefit from some grok
> Sure. But that's open source. I'd contest that Grok is quite different
> from TurboGears or Django or Pylons, though. It's about taking something
> with a very long history (Zope 3, which itself is learning the lessons
> from Zope 2), and making it more accessible and easier to get started with.
> Grok is not "using" Zope 3. Grok *is* Zope 3, in that you have the full
> Zope 3 stack behind you. However, Grok helps you decide how to use the
> Zope 3 components, by promoting certain patterns and providing certain
> tools to make your life easier, giving you a smaller initial learning
> curve and a better starting point.
> It's not about inventing radically new concepts, nor, I suspect, about
> writing lots of code. The Grok developers are also Zope 3 core
> developers. I suspect that's the way it stays.
Grok is Zope 3, differently presented. Mostly we work on taking existing
ideas and innovations and making them easier to use.
I think there are some areas in which Grok might potentially push for
innovation in the technology department. One area is pluggable
templating languages. Another more high-concept area is patterns for
templating-independent theming. I'm sure other areas might come along.
I think one reason templating innovation comes up for Grok is because
easy templating has a high developer usability aspect, which is what
Grok is all about. Of course it also helps that Grok has less legacy
code to worry about than pure Zope 3.
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