[Grok-dev] Re: beginners questions...

[Martijn Faassen]

Oliver Oli wrote:
[snip]
> I think what I'm missing is a reference. I know it's a lot of work and
> it's always hard to find one who capable of doing it and can afford
> the time to accomplish it. 

Tonight me and Jan-Wijbrand looked through the current reference 
documentation that Christian Theune started. I think it's an excellent 
start (especially in the reuse of Python's documentation infrastructure) 
so I hope we can really move forward on this soon.

> I'm going back to the tutorial, if I have
> suggestion how to prove it I'll let you know :-).

Thanks!

> Maybe we could put some documentation in a Wiki?

Good idea. Unfortunately the Zope wiki is currently down. Remind us of 
this next week please?

>> > Is there any way of avoiding stopping and restarting the zope server,
>> > when doing development?
>>
>> Unfortunately not (except if you only change page templates). I believe
>> Philipp and Christian have been doing some research into making reload
>> works, but this is a hard problem to solve due to low-level Python
>> issues, so I think this work is currently on hold. I do believe there's
>> a glimmer of hope that this will eventually be solved, but I'm not up to
>> speed on the details.
> 
> I did some smallish web application with web.py. It is really nice to
> just write your code, save it and test it. Although there are cases
> where it doesn't work with web.py and you have to restart the server
> (and it doesn't work in web.py from svn trunk, maybe they have also
> troubles with reloading portions of the code).

If they use Python's reload, they will run into similar problems. It's a 
very tricky problem to solve perfectly. We've tried for Grok but we 
haven't tackled it yet.

You might catch someone's attention if you  start a separate topic on 
the grok-dev list saying "reloading applications?". Please read the 
archives before you do so though. :)

[snip]

>> I don't know whether anyone did an extensive performance comparison, but
>> I believe people generally consider Zope 3's performance to be
>> reasonable for most purposes. Performance complaints are not common in
>> the community. Zope also offers clustering features like ZEO to scale
>> further.
> 
> I will try to setup a ZEO cluster with two instances. Do you know any
> heavy traffic website that is built with Zope?


Plenty of experience for years doing this in the community... You might 
get someone to discuss their experience.  Ask on the Zope 2 and Zope 3 
mailing lists. One example often mentioned is www.cbsnews.com, which has 
been using Zope for years.

Running heavy traffic websites remains a challenge, of course, no matter 
what technology you use. Zope 3 (and Grok) offer the benefit of 
long-term evolvability for your application, and decoupled architecture. 
This can be very worthwhile if you need to increase performance.

Regards,

Martijn