[Grok-dev] First Experience with Grok

[David Pratt]

Hi Shane. I don't think you will get any argument that Grok is a great 
entry point to Zope 3. I really like the lighthearted approach of this 
community and the Grok character. I like to read about its development 
despite the fact I work with Zope 3 without the grokking.

There is plenty to learn in Zope 3 and at the time it was conceived I 
believe it was a little conflicted with what folks were still doing with 
through the web scripting in Zope 2. The whole rotterdam skin concept 
has certainly been abandoned for quite some time and a modern way of 
programming with Zope 3 has evolved. Phillips books have also helped 
bring much of this to light.

I'd argue that Zope 3 is a framework but without one that doesn't impose 
limits with what you might want to do with it. It is not really 
'contained' like any other framework. Maybe the framework without a 
frame :-) It is only configuration that explicitly binds your work 
together. I find it a natural place for a python programmer but others 
may disagree. Zope 3 may not be well marketed - but is it excellent? 
Certainly. Twisted is another example of this. Fortunately for folks 
that wish to dig deeper in Zope 3, Grok's ease ought to at least attract 
them to consider the journey. I am happy that Grok provides this 
opportunity and a welcoming community. :-)

Regards,
David

Shane Hathaway wrote:
> A more general impression: while Grok has clear goals and a clear
> audience, I feel like Zope 3 has always had an identity crisis.  But
> Grok puts Zope 3 in its place.  Grok establishes that Grok is a
> framework while Zope 3 is an integrated set of libraries.  Grok adds to
> Zope 3 the kind of stuff required to compete with popular frameworks
> like Rails or Django.  That's the way things seem to be headed, anyway.
> 
> Shane
> 
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