[Grok-dev] Towards Grok 0.14

Peter Bengtsson peter at fry-it.com
Wed Sep 17 10:33:09 EDT 2008


2008/9/17 Leonardo Rochael Almeida <leorochael at gmail.com>:
> May I suggest a tarball?
>
> Eggbasket is cool and all, but I think a Grok release should include a
> tarball. This could be just a buildout with built-in download cache
> that can be setup by running "python bootstrap.py; bin/buildout -No"
> (or, better yet, "python install.py"), and it should contain all
> dependencies not present in the python standard library for grok AND
> for grokproject.
>

-1
I disagree because it causes confusion. Basic usability 101. Grok
isn't monolithic. Pylons and their installation docs[1]  look pretty
similar to those of Grok[2].
If there is just ONE way to do it it'll make newbies feel more secure.
Be it a crap way of doing it don't matter as long as you know you're
on the right track.

One thing I remember that made my head hurt when I first looked at
Grok was this: Do I need to download grokproject and/or grok?
Let's focus 100% on grokproject for the getting-started-docs and allow
only the hardcorers' think about grok without grokproject.

I'm not a big fan of buildout and I don't want to be exposed to it but
if it's the best tool for the plumbing so be it.

Arguably the grok page should be renamed to "install" rather than
download since you're using easy_install to *install* rather than to
*download*. We could also add a blurb in the upper right hand corner
like:
"For the impatient...
$ easy_install-2.4 grokproject
$ projectproject my_project_name
"

my 2c

[1] http://wiki.pylonshq.com/display/pylonsdocs/Installing+Pylons
[2] http://grok.zope.org/about/download


> This buildout tar should build grokproject in its ./bin, and this
> grokproject should create buildouts based on the eggs already present
> on the tarball and configuring "newest=false" in buildout.cfg, so that
> downloading the tarball is the only operation needing network access
> before you can try out grok.
>
> Perhaps a tarball that creates a virtualenv instead of wrapping a
> grok/grokproject buildout would be easier, or maybe some other python
> package that creates tarballs out of buildouts, but the point is that
> installing Grok should never be more complicated or error prone than,
> to pick a completely random example out of my hat :-), Django[1].
>
> Right now, even with eggbasket, we still need a number of things to be
> "Just Right On The Internet" for Grok to "Just Work" for someone,
> including a number of packages being on their right versions, as it
> seems like even version pinning is not sufficient to keep us safe from
> things that could break grokproject itself. I'd rather have the user
> just download one package beyond python itself to be able to get up
> and running with Grok.
>
> Cheers, Leo
>
>  [1] http://www.djangoproject.com/download/
>
>  To save you guys a browser trip, the installation process is:
>
>   * download and open tarball
>   * run "python setup.py install"
>   * use the installed scripts to create a new 'django package', which
> won't need anything else to be downloaded before it can be run with
> the built-in http server.
>
> On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 20:36, Martijn Faassen <faassen at startifact.com> wrote:
>> Hi everybody,
>>
>> The summer is over, I moved house, it's time to look at a Grok 0.14 release.
>>
>> [...]
>> Any items that are in progress on the trunk right now and haven't been
>> finished yet?
>>
>> Shall we set a release date for Grok 0.14 later this month/early october?
>>
>> This also ties into grokproject; recently I posted a list of issues with
>> it and I hope we can release a new version of grokproject (and
>> eggbasket, etc) that fixes some of these soon.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Martijn
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>



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Peter Bengtsson,
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