[Grok-dev] Grok-dev Digest, Vol 98, Issue 2

Christopher Lozinski lozinski at freerecruiting.com
Tue Jul 4 14:18:52 CEST 2017

> On Jul 4, 2017, at 1:16 PM, Paul Sephton <prsephton at gmail.com> wrote:
> In the past grokproject has mostly just worked for me without complications.
> __ 

In the past grokproject has also worked well for me.   But I suspect that today it does not install correctly, because it references zope.org <http://zope.org/> pages which are no longer there.
And even if it did, it references an old version of groktoolkit.  Easy to fix if you know what you are doing, but maybe newbies do not know what they are doing.

The other prolem with grokproject was that it was too complicated for a smaller community to maintain.  Everything was a template.  Tell it your new directory, project name and a bunch of other stuff.  KISS.  Much simpler to take the resulting file system and bundle it up as a git repository. 

In any case grok.install works.  I just tested it yesterday, and updated the install instructions. 

In any case the question is why would anyone go with Grok? There is a herd mentality in software.  Everyone does what everyone else is doing.  I saw it with DOS and Windows, I saw it with C++.  I saw it with Node.js on the server.  I saw it with Linux over FreeBSD.  I saw it with Objective-C and Swift.   I see it with Pyramid and Zope. 

I very seldom see an intelligent discussion of the merits of each platform  The comparison is not between Grok and Pyramid.  Pyramid is quite stripped down.  One has to add in a bunch of libraries.  The comparison is between Grok and that bunch of libraries.  I would love to see the list of Pyramid libraries which provide the same functionality as Grok.   That would make for a very meaningful comparison. 

What is your security model?  Default Pyramid gives you a very fast stripped down security model.  “Write it yourself” No thanks.  I have better things to do.  Zope gives me zope.securitypolicy.  A wonderfully rich and flexible framework.  Thank you to the authors.   Can it be ported to Pyramid?

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/pylons-discuss/XJH4YKqmae4 <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/pylons-discuss/XJH4YKqmae4>

No answer, so I think not.  So tell me what permissions library do Pyramid developers use?  And why can it not be ported to Pyramid?  Reportedly a bunch of ZTFY libraries could not port, but I still do not know why not.  Something is fishy.  

Are you using Adaptors?   I know that Paul does a lot with them.  I am increasingly using them.   Brilliant stuff. 

I quite like zope.schema for CRUD.  What is really impressive is z3c.form for CRUD on trees.  I looked but could not find that in the Pyramid world.  But then neither did I find something like zope.schema.  Probably it exists.  But I do not think z3c.form exists over on Pyramid.  

My abstraction is that grok supports higher levels of abstraction than Pyramid.  Great for the small developer.  Pyramid is more stripped down, better for large organizations (and their consultants) who can afford to build everything on top of it. 

In any case I would love to see the list of Pyramid add ons which give me what Grok provides.  

Warm Regards

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