[Grok-dev] megrok.rdb

Souheil CHELFOUH trollfot at gmail.com
Thu Mar 9 18:10:08 CET 2017

Hello guys,

Just a little word, a bit off topic, but to let you know that in 2010 i
created a new framework based on Grok, jsut after the last sprint.
As time went by, I dissociated the framework from Grok, then from Zope3
itself, keeping just a few packages from the ZTK.
The framework called Cromlech was started with Martijn Faassen, using Crom
and Grokker, very lightweight packages to replace the
Martian/zope.component duo.
The Framework is very much alive and used in very big sites and a company
based in Germany, called Novareto.
The concepts are very close from Grok and I consider it the successor I
always wanted.
it has no bound DB, can be used with SQL, ZODB or Solr, all of them at the
same time or none at all.
It runs on python 3.5 and has most of the functionalities Grok had.
It's just a little more DIY, because i've always wanted less magic.


If you're interested, I could help you deploy one and maybe get a feeling
out of it.
It's a few men projects, but it's a no non-sense dev oriented project, to
do the work and not show off.

- Souheil Chelfouh

2017-03-09 10:13 GMT+01:00 Paul Sephton <prsephton at gmail.com>:

> Hi, Chris,
> I have to say that I share your concern about the maintenance of the Zope
> Toolkit, but with one caviat- the ZTK is still reasonably actively used by
> Pyramid as a foundation.
> There certainly is little or no excitement among Python devs that I can
> discern for web development in general, outside of the relatively few folks
> in the Django camp.  And frankly, I have great trouble working up any sort
> of enthusiasm for Django myself.  Having tasted the component oriented
> approach to web development, I find anything else poor faire.
> The problem is that Grok is confusing, especially to newcomers.  Morepath
> does *not *do a significantly better job of selling itself than Grok did
> to start with, I'm sad to say.  PHP devs take one look at it and say
> "whut???".  For better or for worse, PHP is still the most prevalent
> (easily the most hated) web dev tool, and even though I think server side
> Javascript is a ghastly concept, it seems to have taken off with a wild
> abandon I could only have hoped to see in the Python world.
> Ask any two arbitrary Python devs what Grok is though, and you have around
> a 1% chance of either of them knowning what you're talking about.  Assuming
> you hit a jackpot with the vanishingly fading chance that both have heard
> of it, their answers will be wildly varying:  For example, you and I have
> completely different approaches to using Grok.
> The above being the case, I don't blame you for getting that "nagging
> feeling".  However, I don't think it's fair to assume that the ZTK activity
> is dead just because we're not in the same room as the ZTK devs:  a quick
> look at ZopeFoundation projects on github show as of this time, ZConfig &
> z3c.coverage updated 17 hours ago, zope.container, persistent &
> Products.LongRequestLogger updated 21 hours ago, and zc.FileStorage updated
> a day ago.  That's quite a bit of activity in my book!
> ...and Grok is just a relatively thin layer over ZTK.
> Even Zope2 updated only 12 days ago.
> In my opinion, it's sad that Grok is associated closely with Plone, and
> that the only time it gets head room is in the context of Plone
> development.  Plone has huge competition in a shrinking space in the real
> world, and I cannot see it lasting for ever.
> From my experience, Grok is a big boy able to stand on it's own two feet
> without needing Plone as a crutch.   I have built some pretty enormous
> systems based on ZTK technology, using little more than Eclipse, PyDev &
> Postgres, and the only reason I can maintain it all on my own is because of
> the component based approach to scaling the system.
> Very nice to hear from you again, and cheers!
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 10:22 AM, Christopher Lozinski <
> lozinski at freerecruiting.com> wrote:
>>  Great to hear from you.
>> One of my biggest worries is that this whole stack of software is not
>> actively used nor maintained.
>> I am perfectly happy with what I am using, but a little voice in the back
>> of my head is worried.
>> They PyCon web conference in Berlin is coming up .  Call for papers
>> deadline in March 15th.  I am tempted to submit something, but sadly there
>> is no business model behind anything.
>> In the meantime ioscompanies.info is doing great.
>> I hope that all is well with you.
>> Warm Regards
>> Chris
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