[Zope-PTK] PTK workflow proposal

[Paul Everitt]

First, sending email as HTML makes life difficult for replies and for
mail archives.  I've changed this to plain text.

Regarding templates, chances are good that Zope will move towards
templates.  We already had a template proposal online and yours is a
second, so this looks good.

I certainly know about ZopeFish, and since Zope already support xml-rpc,
it's a natural fit.  I agree that Pike/RU could make life a lot easier,
and Zope should support what David Brown is doing.  Dave Winer and I
have a call planned for today or tomorrow to chat about this.

Note that Pike/RU is only a solution for Windows and Mac users and it
isn't clear that it will always be free of charge.  Thus, Pike/RU can
only be part of the picture.

We've already done a lot to make integration with other tools possible
(XML-RPC being one, WebDAV being another, and FTP as well).  It just
takes people doing things like your volunteering to integrate it with
Dreamweaver -- you're right that it shouldn't be that hard, since Andrew
Wooldridge has done a fair amount of work already.  We're working on
Adobe GoLive 5, which has WebDAV support.

As for Python debugging within Pike/RU, I'm curious as to why you think
that would be easy.  Do you have some prototypes?

--Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Burton [mailto:scott@launchpoint.net]
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 9:30 PM
To: zope-ptk@zope.org
Subject: [Zope-PTK] PTK workflow proposal


Hello Fellow Zopers and PTK'ers. I would add some comments and ideas
about workflow to the readers of the PTK list. So here we go.

First of all, design. As a designer and programmer, I know both sides of
the fence. I know what I like to see when I am designing and what I like
when I am developing. I am a true believer in abstraction of form from
function. Especially from a design sense. This also adds room for
extensibility. I have started a Wiki here
http://www.zope.org/WikiCentral/ZFWiki  about it and a dev.zope.org page
Wiki on the subject here
http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Proposals/ZopeTemplateObjects. Feel
free to comment.

To make a long story short, the first part is templating. Where instead
of using a header and footer, you use a plain html template with a
<dtml-var body> in the area where you want the content to render.
Content being an object. There is a product called ZopeFish that
currently accomplishes this see: http://zopefish.weblogs.com. As well as
Pike-editing capabilities of the content. Pike is an outline which opens
and saves the content via xmlrpc. An open remote procedure protocol
similar to SOAP and WebDav. A little self promotion, to see this in work
go to www.zopesite.com. You can sign up to see how this works. Believe
me it makes life easier when designing a Zope site.

Another exciting thing that David Brown(developer of ZF) is doing is
using an icon-based outline to edit your site. Using the xmlrpc standard
to dynamically load and save your data. This is truly exciting and
powerful. To me, this is the most simple and efficient way to manage
content. David Brown has some screenshots of it in use and links to the
download and RU site. This product is developed by Userland but can be
implemented on any TCP/IP based app. I bet Dreamweaver could be written
to do something similar.

This is a very simple workflow and the interface can be customized to
look like nearly anything. A windows-type interface, a Mac interface, a
Next/OSX interface, you name it. What about tying a dtml debugger or
python debugger into it? Where you can test your syntax and logic before
you send it to the server. It can be done. Another plus is editing dtml
in an outline. It is clean, and simple. You can nest loops, collapse or
expand areas. It is like working on a Powerpoint presentation in outline
mode. Compared to editing via a browser, this is a major convenience.

The reason why I am writing this is because I want members of the
community to know this is available. I personally think if this were
integrated into the PTK somehow, it would add some needed usability
changes to Zope.(not that Zope isn't usable). I have used many content
management systems and the PTK could use something like this integrated
into its base.

Everyone I have worked with seems to want two major features in a
content management system. A simple yet extensible workflow and ease of
use. This gives you both.

Scott Burton