[Zope-dev] ASP vs Zope vs PHP vs ..?

[Chris McDonough]

Michael,

I used to develop ASP apps too.

Storing content in the ZODB rather than on a file system takes some
getting used to, that's for sure.  Probably the best initial way to
think about this is to consider the ZODB as another kind of filesystem. 
It's not, really.  But that's probably a good starting point.  If you're
developing under Windows, a good way to sort of ease the pain of
transitioning from filesystem-based to ZODB-based development is to make
use of IE 5's "Web Folder" feature that lets you talk to Zope via WebDAV
and work with Zope objects in a familiar Windows Explorer-type setting. 
Also consider using FTP to access Zope objects.  You *can* also make use
of static documents and templates that sit on the filesystem from within
Zope, but it's not really all that easy.  This is something you'll
probably need some time to get used to, not much to ease the pain here
:).

You can name your objects with file extensions if you want, too, there's
nothing strictly stopping you from doing that.  For example, if you want
to call a DTML Document "mypage.html", you can do this.  It sort of gets
hairy when you get into more advanced development, though, because
Python uses the dot as a qualifier to locate attribute instances of
objects (e.g. PIL.Image or Acquisition.Implicit).  Additionally,
acquired objects in Zope are many times referenced using dot notation
within Python code or DTML code in your pages.  You'll need to jump
through a lot of hoops later if you establish a file-extension naming
convention for Zope objects that includes dots.  I suggest you do some
fooling around with Zope (for example, create an address book
application or a phone list application) that makes use of DTML methods
and documents that *do* contain dots in their IDs to get an idea of
where you "run in to the wall".  If you're using DTML only, and the
application is simple enough, sometimes you don't!

Zope does not provide a WYSIWYG environment for editing and debugging
HTML/DTML code.  There is currently no "studio" product for Zope that
does DTML syntax checking, et. al. and which allows you to do the same
sort of thing that, for instance, Visual Interdev lets you do for ASP. 
Creating a more productive development environment that includes *some*
of this type of functionality is one of the goals of the Zope Mozilla
Initiative which recently geared up (see
http://www.zope.org/Resources/Mozilla).

You can use both DreamWeaver and HomeSite to manage Zope sites using
FTP.

You can connect MS SQL Server to Zope by using the ZODBC database
adapter.

Zope is a platform that values object orientation.  Traditional Web
coding hasn't valued OO much, leading to a steep learning curve for
people whose Web coding experiences have been limited to connecting
RDBMSes to Web servers via Perl, ASP, etc.  Reading a good introductory
(or refresher) book on object orientation will help immensely once you
try to take on larger tasks using Zope.

HTH!

Chris


Michael Waddell wrote:
> 
> I'm an ASP/VB/Site Server developer looking for an alternative. Zope is
> very appealing -- it looks like a great tool supported by a great
> community. And I've enjoyed looking at and playing with Python.
> 
> But, I'm uncomfortable with loosing touch with an actual HTML/ASP document
> in an actual file system. I feel weird about the URL that Zope presents -
> there's no simple file name reference, like, http://www.abc.com/mypage.asp
> or http://www.abc.com/mypage2.html.  Sorry, but my web experience expects
> that.
> 
> 1. Where can I learn how others have handled the transition from page-based
> publishing to Zope's object-based paradigm?
> 
> 2. How do you create/maintain the look of the site? Doesn't seem feasible
> using the Zope control panel. I prefer using HomeSite (Allaire) for coding
> HTML, ASP and any text file. MacroMedia DreamWeaver for complex HTML
> design/layout. And I like using MS SQL Server (although I could be
> converted..) to support data-driven web sites. How do I integrate these
> products with Zope (if at all). The HTML page editing/layout features of
> Zope are not clear to me.
> 
> Thanks for aiding in my evaluation.
> Regards,
> Michael Waddell
> 
> Michael Waddell MW Data Basics, Inc.
> 153 Boles Road Marshfield MA 02050
>