[Zope-dev] Python and Perl scripts

[jpenny@universal-fasteners.com]

On Fri, Oct 20, 2000 at 02:18:47PM -0700, Michel Pelletier wrote:
> jpenny@universal-fasteners.com wrote:
> > 
> The proposal is not for PythonScript but a "Python Script".  We are not
> inventing a new language, this is python, we are just coming up with the
> name for an object.  Don't capitalize it and you'll see what I mean.  Go
> write a python script.  I'm gonna write a python script that handles
> this HTML form.  If we do this with a python script instead of a DTML
> method, it will be much clearer.  Wow, this perl script has lots of
> slashes in it.

I understand, but if naming is under consideration, I worry about
inadvertant connotations.  I feel that in the web space, _-script
has come to mean that the language is a client side actor, witness
javascript, ecmascript, vbscript.  

(On the other hand, PythonScript, PerlScript, and ReXXScript appear
be server side stuff in ASP.) 

And I see a difference between PythonScript and Python Script, but
I don't hear it!

> Function is just as technical as method.  These are OO techncial
> programming terms (function less than method).  The idea is to lower the
> bar for people using Zope.  People who only know HTML will be much more
> likely to grok what a script is than a method.  We want to avoid
> elitism.  Method is total OO elitism, function less so because it's very
> language neutral, and script is like plain vanilla ice cream, everyone
> gets it.
> 
> Like chocolate and coconut-shaving covered almonds, technical details
> mixed in with your ice-cream will appeal only to a smaller crowd.  It
> will not help define what 'ice cream' is.  It will turn away a group of
> users who may have never know they could mix in sardines and sweet
> tarts.  Technical details before the key idea is explained is
> *dangerous* belive me, and it is the pitfall of all existing Zope
> documentation to date.

Actually, I am not sure that script is much less technical than
function.  I think script, as in bash script, or scripting language
is very crabbed and technical indeed.  The only pre-computer usages
I know of script(n.) are indicative of a cursive style of writing,
apeper money,  or a thing that playwrights produce.  I don't think 
that playwrights are going to suddenly start wanting to use python!  
I think that script, as in "scripting language" is simply something 
that most people indeed do not get!

> 
> The new DC documentation motto is "Explain key ideas in simple terms." 
> Method is not a simple term.
> 

I don't disagree with your goal.  I do disagree with this particular
choice of words.  

I can see four potential properties that one could want to emphasize
about a python method.

1) It is safer (to the Zope server) than a python external method.
2) It safer to the end user than a JavaScript (it never touches the client).
3) It uses python, and not something else as its implementation technique.
4) In OO terms, it is not really a Method.

Hence the preference for Safe in the name.  Even a newbie ought not to
be able to cut himself too badly on a python method.

There is talk of perl methods.  So we need python in the description.

Now we just need a generic term, which will not cause other confusions
later on down the road for the concept.  I really don't like script,
especially next to a language name (in the web domain).  You don't like
function (which was not my suggestion).  Thingie seems a bit too non-
descriptive.  Widget has technical meaning.  Perhaps task or job are
suitable, as in
Safe Python Task
Safe Python Job
Safe Python Subtask
Safe Python Function
Safe Python Script

Then external methods, which are often also not methods, can become
Flexible Python Task
Flexible Python Job
Flexible Python Subtask
Flexible Python Function
Flexible Python Script

But if you really want to use
Tame Snake Thingy, and
Wild Snake Thingy,
go ahead, but please do not credit me in the documentation!

As another obesrvation, substituting script for method is not really all
that helpful for the other (misnamed) method, DTML Method.
DTML Script is just not all that much clearer!

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