[ZWeb] Zope.org and New zope.org status

[Sidnei da Silva]

On Sun, Jan 12, 2003 at 12:32:28PM +0100, Paul Everitt wrote:
| Guido van Rossum wrote:
| >Lots of issues to respond to.
| >
| >- Volunteers. <snip>
| 
| Thanks for getting this discussion started, Guido.  It's a healthy sign.
| 
| Some points:
| 
| 1) I think one of reasons for lack of volunteering is the absence of 
| final decision maker.  Back in May, we worked well together as 
| volunteers because there was an active BDFL that could make the final 
| decision on both zope.org and new.zope.org.

Thats right. It was working very well in May.

| I don't think Sidnei can make such decisions on czo (current) or nzo. 
| Am I incorrect on this?

I dont want and I wouldnt like to see any more effort being wasted on
CZO. We are very close to get NZO working and I would like to have all
the effort being directed to making NZO a better place.

| 2) I don't have the impression that we, the zope-web community, are 
| empowered in the same way as the Python, Zope 2, CMF, and Zope 3 
| communities.
| 
| Based on the status report, there is a lot happening behind the scenes 
| that we don't get to see.  We need to get closer to the fishbowl process.

Agreed, but this needs to be done *after* NZO. There will be a lot
more place for collaborative work there.

| Thus, in addition to giving work to zope-web people, I suggest that 
| zope-web operate like Zope: discussions in the open and consensus 
| decisions. And when no consensus emerges, an active and visible BDFL 
| makes the papal edict.

The Zope.org Pope? That would be cool :)

| >- Plone.  Whether or not it's compatible with CMF is anybody's guess,
| >  but it's certain that Zope Corp couldn't help Sidnei if an
| 
| I'm not sure what it means for ZC to help.  My guess is that ZC is 
| booked with customer work.  That was a difficult point for zope.org in 
| 2002, as you saw with python.org.  Has there been a change for 2003?
| 
| In fact, this is exactly my Plone point: based on history, there is more 
| reason to expect help from the Plone community than help from a 
| single-entity such as ZC.  The Plone.org site is at least a hundred 
| times more actively-maintained than either zope.org or the dogbowl, and 
| I'm probably being conservative on that estimate.
| 
| I might be wrong, though.  Is anybody from ZC working directly with 
| Sidnei in the code, making checkins, etc.?  If so, that would support 
| your point.

Not directly, but indirectly Ive got quite some help from ZC. I had
Jeremy for almost two entire days helping me to fix a POSKeyError,
that then proved to be only a dangling reference. Oh, I also found a
bug on TempStorage that was quickly fixed. Jim was also very helpful
when we had to setup the initial sandbox with Zope.org data. But the
biggest contributions came from the community, with CMFBackTalk and
ZWiki (and possibly CMFCollectorNG if we can put it in good shape
before the launch).

| IMO, Zope.org's long-term interests are best served by leveraging the 
| work of greatest common knowledge.  One of current zope.org's biggest 
| problems is that nobody knows where the bodies are buried.  And thus, 
| people would rather create zope3.org than improve zope.org, because it 
| is an orphan that nobody understands.

This reply will get too big too fast. Better do it in parts.

im-the-only-one-who-knows-were-the-bodies-are-buried'ly yours, dc.

-- 
Sidnei da Silva (dreamcatcher) <sidnei@x3ng.com.br>
X3ng Web Technology <http://www.x3ng.com.br>
GNU/Linux user 257852
Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 (Sid) 2.4.18 ppc

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