[Zope] asp request and response objects

Tue, 24 Apr 2001 20:19:33 -0500

Thanks Tom and Tino.

I do believe that Zope and Python is a fantastic combination
for building web based applications and systems.

I agree that a new way of thinking is required to go to a
complete OO web development mentality. I found myself taking
2 hours to figure out to RE-CONSTRUCT a folder to store IMAGES
and then give pages outside that FOLDER access to them for
display... Typical images folder you see with sites...

This alone - when you have zo-db behind you doesnt make sense
to structure your applications the same old way. Everything
is an object - everything stands on its own. Then its just
a matter of structuring your directories for complete productivity
purposes at higher/broader level or keeping things really flat.

ASP - leaves you limited to how you can approach a problem.
Its easier to learn because of this. But, in the end makes
for very UN-ELO-QUENT solutions. Zope is more impressive in
terms of not just focusing on mundane things, but really
going behind 2 or 3 core objects and making the web application
world really open up!

I like that phrase - 'developement "the zope way"' - would look
good on a tee-shirt?

Has anyone put any effort into a resource that documents the
bullet points of what that means - developement "the zope way"?

I would be willing to do so - to really point out to other
developers (ASP etc.) Why Zope rocks and __blank__ doesnt!
We could fairly deep into it - not just high level reasons
why its better... Just a thought.

The thing I find the clunkiest (though it works flawlessly
and makes good intuitive sense) is the management interface.
Would be better as a rich gui. This work is going on isnt it
already?

Thanks

David Kovach
dave@kovach.com
SAP

>From: "Tom Cameron" <tom@cameron.to>
>Reply-To: <tom@cameron.to>
>To: "Tino Wildenhain" <tino@wildenhain.de>, <dave@kovach.com>, 
><zope@zope.org>
>Subject: RE: [Zope] asp request and response objects
>Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 21:53:33 +1000
>
>Hi There,
>I am a newbie at this too. I have moved from ASP to Zope in the last year.
>It was a good move, but not a simple one.
>
>I found the hardest thing to grasp at first was the name space structure.
>Acquisition was also difficult - the basic concept is quite simple, but the
>finer details or how it behaves takes some getting used to.
>
>Tino is right, don't try to look for parallels too much. Concentrate on
>grasping a completely new concept and look for its strengths.
>
>As for REQUEST and RESPONSE, the same objects exist in zope with slightly
>different functionality (and different syntax obviously).
>
>Stick at it, python is a very nice, straight forward language and combined
>with Zope it provides very powerful web publishing solution.
>
>Good luck.
>
>Tom Cameron.
>
>
>=> -----Original Message-----
>=> From: zope-admin@zope.org [mailto:zope-admin@zope.org]On Behalf Of Tino
>=> Wildenhain
>=> Sent: Tuesday, 24 April 2001 7:49 PM
>=> To: dave@kovach.com; zope@zope.org
>=> Subject: Re: [Zope] asp request and response objects
>=>
>=>
>=> Hi David,
>=>
>=> its hard to give you step-by-step advice how to go from
>=> ASP to zope in a simple mail.
>=> The first helpful thing is to get the hands on python.
>=> Its not really hard. (You could even used python with
>=> win32 extensions with ASP already ;)
>=>
>=> The next thing is to forget all - I mean all of the prevoius
>=> code. Try to figure out how your site/application is meant to
>=> work. What should happen when and where are the data (RDBMS
>=> and such)
>=> Then look whats common in tasks and presentation. If you are so far
>=> you can go for implementation.
>=>
>=> If well thought, developement "the zope way" gives you very rapide
>=> the results you want. Dont try to make a 1:1 transformation from
>=> ASP to Zope.
>=>
>=> Things to look at:
>=>
>=> ZClasses,
>=> ZSQL-Methods,
>=> ZPatterns (yes, very hard to learn, but very very powerful!)
>=>
>=> Object-oriented developement in general.
>=>
>=> However, the 1:1 approach could work. But its by far not optimal and
>=> you give away all the advantages zope has.
>=>
>=> HTH
>=> Tino Wildenhain
>=>
>=>
>=> --On Dienstag, 24. April 2001 01:38 -0500 David Kovach
>=> <davidkovach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>=>
>=> > Hi -
>=> >
>=> > Just getting on board with Zope and Python...
>=> > converting over from MS ASP web application
>=> > development AND dont want to invest/waste time
>=> > with JSP or servlets for that matter.
>=> >
>=> > I look forward to seeing how to further work
>=> > with ZOPE with XML/XSLT - page templates cool!
>=> >
>=> > (end of my blah intro!)
>=> >
>=> > Can anyone share with me in simple terms - how
>=> > ZOPE replicates or depracates the ASP object
>=> > of REQUEST and RESPONSE to build dynamic pages??
>=> >
>=> > And I have read and seem to assume that keeping
>=> > logic to add dynamic content should be kept to
>=> > Python code thats called from a DTML method or
>=> > something??? Set me straight...
>=> >
>=> > Thanks - and I look forward to interacting
>=> > with you all more...
>=> >
>=> > Sincerely,
>=> >
>=> > David Kovach
>=> > dave@kovach.com
>=> > dave.kovach@sap.com
>=> >
>=> >
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