[Zope] *Designing* Zope sites

[Trevor Toenjes]

Great feedback.  As a newbie to development, not just Zope, your comments
are appreciated.  (and refreshing)
I do have some follow-up curiosity Q's.

> - Do some things just the way you would with any old server. I still
> use /images/ for a place to put all my images and still reference
> them in html. I still name pages ".html", keep everything lowercase
> and use names for folders that make sense.
I have wondered if this makes the best sense with the world being .html
oriented.
Is this really a usability issue?  everything with zope looks like it is
coming from a folder, which eliminates the need from users to remember
.asp,.htm,.htm,.cfm
But doesnt this look confusing if you apply a method to an object(zClass)
and get zope/folder/adocument.html/amethod.html??  or can you avoid this?
Do you have other reasons for this?

I havent implemented "keep everything lowercase", which HAS caused usability
problems when users try to go to a case sensitive page directly.
Can mod_rewrite fix this by trying to find all lower or upper case
iterations of an URL?  An experienced developer that helps me couldnt figure
this out.


> - Spend extra time learning Zope security. If you don't it will bite
> you in the end (your end).
okay.  like I said, I am new to this. briefly, what are the security issues
with zope, and what is the easiest way for someone to break your Zope
maliciously?
Any examples you could share?

Thanks,
-Trevor



> -----Original Message-----
> From: zope-admin@zope.org [mailto:zope-admin@zope.org]On Behalf Of BZ
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 11:07 PM
> To: Joel Burton; zope@zope.org
> Subject: Re: [Zope] *Designing* Zope sites
>
>
> Ok... so I will step up to the bat.... with what I have learned (and
> throw it into a how-to on Zope.org)
>
> After building, maintaining and rebuilding over 10 sites with Zope of
> all different varieties here is some of what I have learned (in a pea
> pod shell)
>
> - Get to know and love standard_html_header and standard_html_footer
> they will make your life much easier if you can decide what stuff to
> put in them and what stuff to leave out. Navigation is good, site
> table templates are good. Anything that is page specific is not so
> good.
>
> - Do some things just the way you would with any old server. I still
> use /images/ for a place to put all my images and still reference
> them in html. I still name pages ".html", keep everything lowercase
> and use names for folders that make sense.
>
> - I find that hosting more sites out of one Zope installation,
> leaving some dependencies on products is a much better way to go and
> much easier to maintain in the end.
>
> - Use versions. They are easy, fun and powerful. You can play with a
> live site to your hearts content without ever breaking it.
>
> - Use Zope products with a little caution. There are a ton of
> products that do a lot of things but not all of them are still
> supported nor have been tested with the newer releases of Zope. Look
> at date of the last distribution to see when they updated it. Also,
> if it is says beta, know that it probably is for a reason. Email the
> developer and ask.
>
> - Spend extra time learning Zope security. If you don't it will bite
> you in the end (your end).
>
> -
>
>
> At 11:17 AM -0500 3/7/01, Joel Burton wrote:
> >I've been learning about the workings of Zope: ZClasses, ZSQL methods,
> >Python products, etc., and there are *lots* of resources about the APIs,
> >and lots of products to add content to our sites.
> >
> >There is also lots of help on how to *set up* a Zope site: how to tie
> >w/Apache, etc.
> >
> >What I haven't found yet, though, is much advice on how to *design* the
> >Zope site:
> >
> >  . effective ways to use User Folders
> >
> >  . whether to make containing folders for like objects (eg book
> reviews),
> >and collect these for lists with objectValues, or whether to add them
> >under user folders/different contexts, and use ZCatalog searches to find
> >them.
> >
> >  . how to handle printable pages throughout a site
> >
> >  . strategies for using ZSQL methods throughout a site
> >
> >and so on
> >
> >The Zope book tosses some nuggets of advice here and there, but doesn't
> >build up a site, so we don't really get to see the workings of a talented
> >Zope architect. Other documentation focuses on how to Do Things, like use
> >SQL methods, or how to build products.
> >
> >I've had a little bit of time to look at the CMF, and that has some
> >structure about reviewing, etc. (and seems to advocate the 'place things
> >in user folders, use ZCatalog to find' method); however, I'm not
> designing
> >something that seems so portal-ish, and this seems like a hegemonic
> >solution to a design question.
> >
> >So:
> >
> >Am I missing any resources on fitting it all together?
> >
> >Are there 'example sites' that someone could describe?
> >
> >Would anyone with a well-designed site be willing to export it all up and
> >post it somewhere, so we could explore it?
> >
> >Or are there other ways of starting this learning path?
> >
> >--
> >Joel Burton   <jburton@scw.org>
> >Director of Information Systems, Support Center of Washington
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
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