[Zope] can zope port to java/dotnet?

[Michael Havard]

Maybe we're looking at this from the wrong direction. Maybe the best way to 
leverage those skills and toolsets is in the area of interoperation instead 
of porting the whole shebang from trendy platform to trendy platform.

For example lets say on my team I have 1 python, 6 java, and 2 .net people. 
I could use the python guy to create a product that communicated with a 
larger product created by the 6 java developers that used some other 
component created by the .net people.

These languages don't have to be used to the exclusion of all else. I see 
this same thing happen in Java based web development. None of the java 
programmers want to know anything at all about HTML/CSS/Javascript/XML/XSLT. 
They want to focus on Java generating it all for them and it ending up 
perfectly on the other side - sans designer. They see no value whatsoever in 
learning or much less coding any script, html, or css. It's all about JSP, 
STRUTS, whathaveyou(which of course has to be learned, but that seems to be 
out of their realm of understanding).

I fear that Java programmers of today are going to be the COBOL programmers 
of tommorrow. They'll be 55 years old extolling the virtues of the virtual 
machine and JIT well after something else has become popular. They'll be 
locked into a decreasing job market because they refused to go outside of 
their box and learn anything new. They'll end up like Powerbuilder 
programmers ;).


>From: Dylan Reinhardt <zope@dylanreinhardt.com>
>To: Chen Fu <novalet@yahoo.com.cn>,zope@zope.org
>Subject: Re: [Zope] can zope port to java/dotnet?
>Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 20:45:47 -0800
>
>At 07:15 PM 3/12/2003, =?gb2312?q?Chen=20Fu?= wrote:
>>I like zope for its pure OO framework. is it the only
>>work among the CMSs take this design? If it is true,
>>why not any other clone in java, c# or cpp?
>
>If people who programmed in c# or java cared about using good tools, they'd 
>have switched over to Python by now.  :-)
>
>>I agree Python is a good language, but it faces many
>>challenges also like relative slow speed
>
>Python code won't execute as fast as assembler, but you'll finish your 
>project a lot faster and have an easier time maintaining it.
>
>>, short of
>>programmer(compare with java cpp)
>
>Python is today poised where Linux was about 6-7 years ago... most people 
>have barely heard of it and only a few have found out first-hand how 
>utterly it eclipses just about everything other choice in a wide range of 
>applications.  Six years ago was a great time to be building your 
>credentials as a Linux guru... now is a great time to be investing your 
>time in Python.
>
>>and short of elite
>>programming environment (like MS visual studio).
>
>There are overpriced IDEs for Python too.  :-)  Anyway, 90% of the problems 
>solved by IDEs just aren't problems in Python.  Turn on syntax highlighting 
>in Vim and you've got pretty much all the environment you could possibly 
>need.
>
>>Some articles explain why the zope can't port from
>>CPython to JPython. But how about a rebuild in pure
>>java/cpp/c#? is it possible and deserved?
>
>A more important question is why you'd bother.  Why waste important 
>development time achieving barely any more performance than you might have 
>gotten out of a memory upgrade?  Besides, who want to recompile every time 
>you upgrade a product?
>
>Evaluating Python (or Zope) for its speed of execution is asking the wrong 
>set of questions about this kind of software.  Performance matters *some*, 
>but not nearly as much as development cost, maintenance cost, and time to 
>market.  If you work in an environment where software gets validated or 
>audited, you just can't beat Python for its clarity.  When push comes to 
>shove, it's usually a lot easier to get more hardware than more hours of 
>good programming talent.
>
>If you want to improve Zope's performance, you can start by delegating 
>more.  Proxy aggressively.  Serve all static content (especially images) 
>out of Apache.  Do more load balancing.  Upgrade to ZEO.  Once you look at 
>the big picture, there are very few situations where tweaking low-level 
>code is the most efficient way to conceive of improving performance.    
>Just because Zope *can* serve as an all-in-one tool doesn't mean that's the 
>best way to use it.
>
>There are situations where writing the smallest, fastest thing possible is 
>critical... most web apps just aren't in that domain.  If you're having 
>performance problems in a web app, your time is almost always better spent 
>tweaking the graphics than just about anything else.
>
>My $.02,
>
>Dylan
>
>
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