[Zope] Questions concerning development in Zope

[Dylan Reinhardt]

On Thu, 2003-11-27 at 15:54, Iwan van der Kleyn wrote:

>  * Zope is often criticised for its perceived lack of documentation. 

IMO, that's still a problem, despite some outstanding efforts.

> Although the current Zope book seems to have improved greatly, I still 
> miss a good reference guide/book on advanded topics (the Development 
> Guide seems to have stuck at version 2.4 and is rather limited). Which 
> book(s) can fullfill this role?

None that I'm aware of... in English, anyway.  If you speak German or
French, there may be other resources available to you.

> 
>  * Zope seems to lack a dominant development methodology/paradigm. 

There is no framework for Zope because Zope *is* a framework.


> What 
> shoudl I use in Zope? ZTP with Scripts? Or external Methods? ZCLasses? 
> Products?

Skip ZClasses, first off.  You'll probably do best to prototype with
scripts/external methods and migrate to products.  Whatever you use for
logic, you'll be using templating (ZPT/DTML) throughout.


> 
>  * Releated to the former question: ASP.NET and PHP (through Pear) 
> excell in easy (fast!) form-based development. What functionality can 
> Zope offer? I've seen some references to a " Formulator"  product.

With Zope, you can instantiate and configure objects entirely through
the web.  File system access is required to *extend* Zope with new
products, but most development *is* rapid *and* form-based.


> 
>  * Plone seems to be all the rage. But is Plone usable as an application 
> framework? Can I use Plone for form-based, data-driven applications?

Plone excels as a CMS.  Plone might provide a *part* of a serious
data-driven app, but you'll want to do most of the logic in plain Zope. 


>  * And finally (which makes me come across somowhat like a Troll, sorry 
> about that :-). What is the "life expectancy" of Zope?

Good question.  What's the life expectancy of Python?  Of web browsers?


>  Most of the hype 
> regarding Zope seems to have died away somewhat.

Perhaps true.  But I'll take *success* over *hype* any day.  :-)


>  Recently its coming 
> back in the slipstream of Plone.

Less cynically, you could say that Plone is the first well-deployed
application to leverage Zope's power.  It often takes years for platform
technologies to spawn their killer apps.


>  But realistically, what are the chances 
> of Zope being a *relevant* application platform in a couple of years 
> time? 

Zope has a solid corporate parent, strong ongoing development efforts, a
vibrant user community, commercial support, hosting companies, service
providers, and open source licensing.  That which Zope lacks in two
years could be created by any number of parties, including you.

We don't have the raw numbers of PHP or Java.  That means fewer books
and sparser docs.  But IMO the tool is good enough to justify the extra
effort.  Once you get the hang of a few idioms, the rest falls into
place pretty easily and you stop missing the docs so much.


> WIth "relevant"  I mean: a platform which is well supported and 
> keeps up with the compettition on *features*, not necessarilly market 
> share.

Zope 3 may be of particular interest to you.  It's a significant step
toward maintaining long-term usefulness and relevance.  It's not
production-ready yet, but is far enough along you may wish to factor it
into your long-term planning.

Obviously, I'm a partisan, trying to be helpful anyway... :-)

HTH,

Dylan