[Zope] Frustrated with Python and Frameworks. Zope, Grok, Django, CherryPy

Rene B rb2.net at gmail.com
Mon Nov 26 20:18:54 EST 2007

I'm frustrated trying to select a python web framework. I’ve researched quite a 
few. CherryPy,Karrigell,Zope 2,3,Grok, Gluon,Django,Mod_Python. I’ve also 
looked at templating languages like Spyce, and Cheetah.
I’m beginning to think there’s nothing  out there  for a newbie python 
programmer like myself.  I’m a Network Admin  that likes programming but 
doesn’t have the time to get really proficient at it.
I selected Python as a language of choice and that’s all I’ve used.  I’ve 
written a  few scripts .
I’m interested in building dynamic web sites but I tell you  it’s impossible to 
select a tool.
I’ve researched all the tools mentioned above.  The most important thing in my 
decision is that I know some Python and want to use it to build the dynamic 
site. I don’t want to learn a new language to do that. ZPT is a new language. 
Its not python.  Not even close.  Out of all the ones I’ve researched I like 
Zope 2 the best.  Not sure why. I want some thing easy.  I like DTML. It’s 
easy. I know why ZPT has it’s advantages but for ease of use it doesn’t come 
close to DTML. Most people like me wont  be building complex web sites and  I’d 
be the only working on it meaning I’ll do the HTML layout and code the dynamic 
portions of it. So I don’t’ need to worry about  an HTML editor getting 
confused with the dynamic languages  mixed in blah blah  blah.

I’m afraid to learn Zope 2 because I have no idea what direction it’s going in. 
Not to mention I don’t particularly like ZPT. I’ve read DTML isn’t going 
anywhere but I don’t imagine I’ll get much support  on it when needed and I’m 
sure people will be telling me to use ZPT cause DTML is dead.  
Funny, I read something while reading news about Grok’s new plugins for any 
template language . They used Genshi as an example and talked about template 
languages and which one is better etc.. The bottom line was "use the one that 
you like".  So I wish people would stop putting down DTML or others over the 
one they prefer and continue to help those regardless of which they choose.
Back to trying to choose. I think Django is too hard.  I like Mod_python with 
PSP. PSP seems to be more python like then anything I’ve seen. Yet Mod_Python 
has terrible docs for people like me and it doesn't seem to popular.
The other frameworks have some good ideas. I like Karrigell but you just don’t 
know how long it will be supported.Gluon is cool but its new.  Zope 3 is out of 
the question. Grok looks to me like  another CherryPy. It may be easier the 
Zope 3 but it’s not easier then Zope 2. Plus I’ve yet to get it installed on my 
windows XP to play. 
I like cheetah as a tool. There docs are not that great and not many examples. 
Plus no auto generated content  like you get in Zope 2.  Yes some magic is 
good. The CRUD is what made Rails over rated to start out with.People like some 
magic. saves time.  Combining Cheetah and Zope sounds interesting to me.
So what do I do. I like Zope 2. I can’t find any books on it released after 
2002. Plone is tooo much.
There aren’t any new products out for Zope 2 and the ones that are there 
haven’t been touched for years.
Zope 2 wiki seems dead.  I was looking the other day for some type of  auto 
CRUD for Zope 2. couldn’t find  anyting. No one seems to be adding anything new 
to Zope 2 which scares me the most.
If I take the time to learn a tool I want to make sure it’s going to be around 
for awhile and have good support and new addons  being added all of the time to 
help me.

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